Divorce Rich with Jacki Roessler, CDFA
Welcome to the Divorce Rich Podcast! Join your host, highly sought-after speaker and experienced Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, Jacki Roessler, CDFA in this engaging and down to earth show. Along with her guests, Jacki offers clear and detailed advice to improve your financial decisions before, during and after divorce so you can survive divorce rich! New episodes are posted every other Thursday! You can reach Jacki through her Michigan-based firm, Roessler Divorce Consulting, located at 600 S. Adams, Suite 300, Birmingham, MI 48009 or by email at jacqueline@roesslerdivorce.com.
Divorce Rich with Jacki Roessler, CDFA
From Abuse to Empowered Divorce Settlements with Divorce Coach Beverly Price
How do survivors of domestic violence navigate the treacherous waters of divorce without being re-traumatized? On this episode of the Divorce Rich Podcast, we're joined by Beverly Price, the formidable CEO of the Divorce Coalition and founder of Her Empowered Divorce, to unravel the complexities of divorcing an abusive partner. Together, we break down the crucial elements required for survivors to advocate for themselves effectively. Beverly sheds light on the harsh realities of re-traumatization and emphasizes the critical role of finding attorneys skilled in handling such sensitive cases. We also uncover the immense value a divorce coach can offer, acting as a beacon of support through these trying times.
Beverly Price is passionate about helping women reclaim their power during and after divorce. As a Certified Divorce Coach (CDC), she’s guided countless women through the toughest moments of their lives, from navigating high-conflict divorces to dealing with the trauma of domestic abuse. Beverly knows firsthand how overwhelming divorce can be and provides the support she wishes she had during her own journey.
She’s also the co-founder of The Divorce Coalition, working to transform how society addresses domestic abuse through education, collaboration, and advocacy.
RESOURCES
- To book a consultation with Beverly, CLICK HERE
- US National Domestic Violence Hotline - Call 1.800.799.SAFE (7233)
- To find out more about Domestic Abuse on Podcasts and Blogs VISIT THE DIVORCE COALITION WEBSITE
Visit us at https://www.roesslerdivorce.com/ to learn more about Jacki's practice and to find valuable resources for your case.
Welcome to the Divorce Rich Podcast. I'm your host, jackie Ressler. I've been a certified divorce financial analyst for 28 years, helping clients and their attorneys navigate the often complex and confusing financial issues in divorce. If you're in the process of, or considering, divorce, now is the time for you to take a deep breath and give yourself permission to find clarity on the financial issues you're facing. Rich means many things to many people. I believe the best definition of being rich is someone who has access to many resources. Along with my guests on this podcast, I will be bringing you a wide variety of information so that you can make sound and informed financial decisions for your financial future.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Divorce Rich Podcast. I am very lucky today to have as my guest Beverly Price. Beverly is an amazing woman. She's based in North Carolina, but she does work with people all over the country. She is the CEO of the Divorce Coalition, which we're going to talk about. She's also a divorce coach and the founder of Her Empowered Divorce, and we are going to be talking about domestic violence and the impact that that has on divorcing clients. Welcome, beverly.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, jackie, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 2:So let's dive right into it. Well, tell me about the Divorce Coalition.
Speaker 1:Okay. The Divorce Coalition was formed by a group of divorce podcast hosts, divorce professionals, therapists and domestic violence professionals to really combat domestic violence, and we started out last year by just focusing on Domestic Violence Awareness Month and then we really made a concerted effort to say going forward. We didn't want to just be about awareness, we wanted to be about change. So now we're all about improving the divorce process for abuse survivors. We found that research shows that not only are survivors traumatized in their relationship, but they're also re-traumatized by the divorce process and divorce professionals, sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally. Tell me more about that.
Speaker 1:Well, I was speaking with an attorney and she was telling me she had a client that had been abused and she asked, in the most sensitive way she knew how, a particular question to the client. The client shut down and left the room. Now here was an attorney that tried as hard as she could to be delicate, to be caring, but if you don't understand the psyche and the trauma that's happened, that can be devastating. I also have a client who was in mediation. She had her an attorney with her and when it was finished or when they took a pause, she and her attorney walked out and the attorney said to her are you sure you were abused? He seems like such a nice man. That is the kind of thing that just totally traumatizes an abuse victim. Of course.
Speaker 1:That's, yeah, that's awful Well we all have biases, you know? Yeah, that's true, we all have biases.
Speaker 2:So somebody who is a survivor of domestic violence, who decides that they're going to go forward and they're going to file for divorce, are there different questions that they should ask when they're interviewing an attorney? Are there red flags that they can?
Speaker 1:look for Absolutely, absolutely. Some of the first questions are to find out if that attorney has any experience at all in domestic violence cases, in helping the victim, not the perpetrator Right. So and you want to find out how much experience they have. It's a very scary thing to walk into divorce period, but to walk into divorce with the person that's supposed to support you that doesn't know anything about the kind of situation you're in is frightening. So that's the first question that I think you need to interview. The second thing is many abuse survivors have been groomed by their abuser to almost shrink and be small and have told that they're stupid and they can't think for themselves, and so the abuser did all the thinking for them. So this survivor walks into that attorney's office and can make the mistake of turning everything over to the attorney.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense and saying I want you to make all the decisions. You know what's right and not being their own advocate. And, as you and I know, the most important thing you can do in divorce is be your own advocate. It's true. So, that's another thing to really watch out for.
Speaker 2:I think that's really hard for anyone going through divorce because if you, first of all, if you've never been through it before, you're counting on your attorney to do what you think is supposed to be done. So a lot of my clients will tell me my attorney says I can't get this or I'm not getting that, and in the back of my mind I might know well, that's not necessarily the case. Or you know, but they don't. They don't push back often Even somebody who hasn't been a victim of any kind of domestic abuse because they think that they're being told the right information. So I think that's a really tough ask for someone.
Speaker 1:It is, and that's why having somebody else in your corner like a divorce coach who's positive and supportive and, importantly, a divorce coach that's experienced in domestic violence you know, I've been coaching for 30 years and I'm a survivor myself, so I know firsthand what that experience is like and I know how frightening it can be throughout the entire process. And in many cases, divorce only exacerbates the anger of the abuser Right Because they feel like they're losing power and control, which they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm in Michigan and I do a lot of collaborative work. So I do collaborative cases and I do cases that are traditional litigated cases. Most of our cases don't go to trial. In Michigan and in the jurisdictions that I work in, do you think that one or one of those methods is better for someone who is a survivor of domestic violence, or is collaborative appropriate always?
Speaker 1:of domestic violence Is collaborative, appropriate, always. Well, I don't think any one method is always appropriate. I think you have to look at that particular situation and the parties involved, the extent of the abuse. Is it life-threatening, is it not? The personalities how hostile it is, not the personalities, how hostile it is. And then you have to look at the experience of the divorce professionals involved. Right, that makes sense. Mediation for many people can work. It has to be carefully done and you need somebody very skilled in domestic violence to do it. And you may want to do things like instead of mediating in the same room, you may want to mediate by Zoom so you're nowhere physically. You know the victim may want to put a piece of paper over the screen so they don't even see the abuser's face, and so it just. It really depends on the attitude of the two participants and the skill levels of the professionals.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so it sounds to me like it all goes back to the same thing, which is that you have to have professionals involved that are experienced, that have handled this before I think so. What kind of? Is there any training available?
Speaker 1:There is. There is some training, I think, through the bar associations and from what I've seen, it's things like what they're feeling, what the experience is, why things happen, why things don't, how to. A good understanding of the perpetrator is very essential, particularly with a lot of legal abuse, so I think that's a big issue as well.
Speaker 2:What does that mean from a practical standpoint? Give me an example of how it would be important to have an understanding of the perpetrators within the legal process.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, imagine, let's say this one in particular is in mediation and let's imagine that you have a very abusive, hostile, verbally abusive spouse. He may stonewall mediation and delay it and delay it and delay it, or he may throw his hands up and say, nope, I'm not doing this, we're going to litigation. So having an understanding of the power and control wheel and that an abuser isn't driven by sexual desire or whatever they are driven by power and control, and that the divorce process takes that away, it's almost like understanding the psychology. Okay, as I would think in criminal court and other courts you want to understand, to know what you're dealing with. But one of the things that, for example, in litigation is helpful is that, knowing the perpetrator, you can get a good grasp on the legal abuse that may happen and the court antics that will take place.
Speaker 1:You know, I have a client whose spouse files a motion every Friday afternoon at 4 pm when her attorney is gone for the day. One of these motions was that she had to reimburse him for $1.32 for a parking ticket. Frivolous motions, harassment, there's so much that can go on and yet you really need to understand that that abuser is going to come across like everybody's best friend is going to come across like everybody's best friend Right, lick, smart, polite. But when the teeth come out, like if you see the attorney, I've watched an attorney actually kind of tease the perpetrator and get the perpetrator too abrupt to show their true colors Big, big difference.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I've had several cases over the years where I have I've felt like there was it was a situation of domestic violence where I've asked the client if there was any instance of domestic violence. Are you afraid? Has there ever been any physical or other kinds of intimidation? There's more than one in my opinion. There's more than one kind of domestic violence.
Speaker 2:I've had half of my clients, I feel like, are victims of financial abuse, but one in particular I really felt strongly. We were in mediation and I was her financial coach. She had an attorney, but the attorneys were never present at the mediations. The husband did not have any kind of a coach and he didn't have an attorney, which made it more difficult actually, because there was really no one in control of him. They've been in Zoom. I could tell even through the Zoom screen that you could see him like seething when certain things came up and it was intimidating to me. She didn't even really notice it. So I think you really do need to have more than just a passing understanding of what's going on. You have to be aware of the dynamics between the couple and if you haven't had any training in that or you've never been through anything like that it's very difficult to be an advocate.
Speaker 1:I think having a good understanding of trauma and trauma-informed responses can help. But if you take that feeling you had and imagine you felt like that all day long, every day for 10 years, think about what would happen to you psychologically. And that's something that a lot of people can't comprehend. They, you know it's like some of our listeners may be old enough to remember John McCain, who was in a prisoner of war camp, and what happens in a prisoner of war camp, with the torture every day for a long period of time and what that does to a prisoner. This is identical to that, this unpredictable, constant fear that you have. It's hard to think of much that compares to it when it lasts that long.
Speaker 2:You're right, it's very, it's very scary thought. You're absolutely right and again I think that it is is it is in your opinion. Do you think it's possible for someone who is a survivor of domestic violence to get a fair settlement in a divorce? Fair, meaning financially fair, because a lot of my clients, whether they there's abuse or not, they feel like I'm being mean, I'm the lower, you know, if I'm the lower wage earner, I don't want to put too much pressure on him and I'll be okay. I think that I could only imagine that if you are a survivor of domestic violence, that you feel you've been trained to take care of that other person and blame yourself, Right.
Speaker 1:Well, I think a lot of it comes down to what's the divorce team that that person has, because a divorce coach is one that's going to guide them to more a position of strength and help them analyze situations pro and con. Okay, you want to do this? Well, here's the implication of that. Or you don't want to do this? Here's the implication of that. So that they're not just swift decisions. As you and I know, one of the biggest mistakes in divorce is to let emotions run you. So that's a big case, right? Accumulated, strong documentation that can be used to show that, if they have no documentation, it is going to be very difficult, right?
Speaker 2:I think I want to make sure that we go back and emphasize what I heard you say just now, which is that really, when you are in, if you have been a survivor of domestic violence or domestic abuse, that you need to take it slow. When you are in, if you have been a survivor of domestic violence or domestic abuse, that you need to take it slow when you're making decisions about divorce, and I think that is so important. A lot of our cases here in Michigan settle at what's called end stage mediation, where clients they're trying. The mediator is motivated to try to get people to settle in one day sometimes and I think it's always it always makes sense to take take a minute to breathe, sleep on before you make a decision. Talk to somebody like you who is a divorce coach. I think that that is a great advice about taking it slow.
Speaker 1:Well, and I also think working with somebody like you in the financial realm to be able to look at here's the implications, financially, of my decisions. You know, sometimes I think people in divorce think I've just got to get through this and life will be okay, and they don't think about the implications of their decisions for the rest of their lives or for their children, and so somebody like you can give them different scenarios that aren't threatening but help them. See, you know, it's just like, even if somebody doesn't have domestic abuse, that whole issue of do I keep the house or not, right? Well, I want to keep the house and dig in my heels. But have you really looked at can you afford that house? Right? You know those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:I agree and I think that in all of the cases that I have a good percentage of them people come to me with an idea in mind of what they think they want and by the time we're done working together and they've looked at a variety of different financial projections they have a different point of view, but it also takes time for people to move to that. I think that you know, sometimes when I look at a case I've been doing this for almost 30 years Also I feel like when I look at a case, I have an idea of where I think it's best for the client to end up, but it might take a long time for them to shift that their mental mindset. Like you said, they're already going through a trauma that's the divorce and if they've been previously traumatized in their relationship, that's got to make it that much harder.
Speaker 1:Well, you hit the nail on the head Mindset work is, you know, one of the biggest pieces that a coach works with, because we've gotten conditioned a certain way and we need to learn how to keep our options open. Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:So tell me more about how a divorce coach is different than a therapist and I think you alluded to it. I know, but I want to make sure our audience understands what you do. That's different than a therapist.
Speaker 1:Well, there's a number of differences. The general one I use is typically a therapist focuses backward, on life, focuses on things that have already happened to you childhood issues, things that you know, family of origin, things that you need to work through and a coach focuses forward, setting goals and where are you going in the future. Now, in the case of someone that's been through trauma, you may need to heal before you can look at moving forward. So a therapist and a coach together are going to be your biggest and best solution and best solution If you haven't had that traumatic experience. Going forward with a divorce coach is going to give you something specific to get through the divorce and I like to say I break it down into logistics, emotions and education. I love that.
Speaker 2:Those are the things that actually do slow people down to make decisions. So, and you work with people all over the country, right? It's not just specific. I know that for me, ever since the pandemic, I have discovered that I can use Zoom to great effect, and I was recently in Seattle for a trip and one of my clients who lives in Seattle that I've never met before. I got to meet her in person and we spent some time together and it was great.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, this invention has made it so much more open to be able to help people in different parts of the country, and some of these things are universal. What you're doing is universal. You know, for the finances and the legal, sometimes it's really tied to your location because things vary so much, but the emotional aspects that you're helping people with, that has got to be pretty universal. Yes, Um, what? What kind of this is my last question for you, Beverly. What kind of resources are available to someone who is, who thinks that they're in the situation of being a survivor of domestic violence, but really wants to move forward with getting a divorce? What resources are out there?
Speaker 1:Well, I think the first and most important thing is to find seasoned professionals in domestic violence. Do not leave an abuser without a safety plan. 70% of women that leave abusers without a safety plan are murdered.
Speaker 1:So you need to be very careful 70% 70, seven zero, so you need to be prepared. 7070. So you need to be prepared and preparation is so much saving money, having places to go, things like that. So one resource is your local domestic violence shelter. They're going to be great because they know your area and your town, okay. The second is the National Hotline. That National Hotline has trained professionals that can answer all sorts of questions. Then there would be each state typically has a state coalition against domestic violence, so you could try that, and then I would try your state or local bar association to see what kind of support they can give to domestic violence victims as well as people like me, people like you, that are skilled in the trade.
Speaker 2:Those are great tips, Beverly. Thank you. I'm going to put some of these resources, I'm going to link these in the show notes along with your contact information. I want to thank you so much for being my guest today and for all of the work that you're doing to help people. You're making a big difference in the world and I know that. I'm appreciative and I'm sure that all of your clients are so grateful to work with you.
Speaker 1:We. It is beautiful to watch how someone grows and turns into someone totally different.
Speaker 2:It is. That's true. I always think that my clients when I first meet them, no matter what their situation is, they look completely different in a year just because they are a different person, and it is wonderful to be a part of that. So I agree, thank you again. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen to Divorce Rich Podcast. If you like this podcast, please follow us on Apple or anywhere that you download podcasts, and share this link with any friends or family that you think might benefit from this information.
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