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Divorce Rich with Jacki Roessler, CDFA
Welcome to the Divorce Rich Podcast! Join your host, highly sought-after speaker and experienced Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, Jacki Roessler, CDFA in this engaging and down to earth show. Along with her guests, Jacki offers clear and detailed advice to improve your financial decisions before, during and after divorce so you can survive divorce rich! New episodes are posted every Thursday! You can reach Jacki through her Michigan-based firm, Roessler Divorce Consulting, located at 600 S. Adams, Suite 300, Birmingham, MI 48009 or by email at jacqueline@roesslerdivorce.com.
Divorce Rich with Jacki Roessler, CDFA
Your Post-Divorce Paycheck: Creating Tax-Efficient Income in Retirement with Nick Defenthaler, CFP®, RIPC®
Facing the financial complexities of divorce in your 50s or 60s? The retirement planning decisions you make now could save you tens of thousands in taxes down the road.
Jacki Roessler welcomes financial planning expert Nick Defenthaler to unpack the crucial yet often overlooked retirement account strategies that can transform your financial future after divorce. Nick breaks down the fundamental differences between traditional and Roth IRAs with crystal clarity, revealing why understanding these distinctions matters tremendously when dividing assets in a divorce settlement.
Nick shares practical wisdom about creating an optimal "retirement paycheck" by drawing from different account types in a strategic sequence. You'll discover why the financial decisions you make during this transition period can have tax implications lasting decades, and why partnering with advisors who understand both divorce and tax planning is essential for long-term financial security.
RESOURCES
- To learn more about Nick, click the link below: https://www.centerfinplan.com/nick-defenthaler
- Check out the articles Nick has written for ‘The Street: Retirement Daily” by clicking the following link https://www.thestreet.com/retirement-daily/author/nick-defenthaler-cfp-ricp
- To schedule a complimentary introductory consultation with Jacki, click the link below:https://calendly.com/roessler-jacki/30min?month=2024-03
Whether you're contemplating divorce, currently navigating the process, or adapting to life after a gray divorce, this episode provides the financial literacy you need to make informed decisions about your retirement accounts and create a more secure future. Subscribe to Divorce Rich for more insights on achieving financial clarity during this challenging life transition.
Visit us at https://www.roesslerdivorce.com/ to learn more about Jacki's practice and to find valuable resources for your case.
Welcome to the Divorce Rich Podcast. I'm your host, jackie Ressler. I've been a certified divorce financial analyst for 28 years, helping clients and their attorneys navigate the often complex and confusing financial issues in divorce. If you're in the process of, or considering, divorce, now is the time for you to take a deep breath and give yourself permission to find clarity on the financial issues you're facing. Rich means many things to many people. I believe the best definition of being rich is someone who has access to many resources. Along with my guests on this podcast, I will be bringing you a wide variety of information so that you can make sound and informed financial decisions for your financial future. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Divorce Rich Podcast.
Speaker 1:Today we are really lucky because we have as a guest today Nick Daffenthaler, who is a CFP and an RICP.
Speaker 1:He is a partner and financial planner at the Center for Financial Planning in Southfield and he used to be a former colleague of mine and I know how intelligent and empathetic Nick is as a financial planner with his clients.
Speaker 1:But Nick has been. Nick has a lot of clients who are in retirement or nearing retirement and he has spent a lot of time working through and thinking about ways to reduce taxes for clients in retirement, create the ideal paycheck out of their overall assets and potentially improve their overall investment outcome through doing all of that. And I think it's a really unique strategy that we don't hear about enough. And yet I know from my own friends, as we're getting closer to retirement, we're talking about that. Everyone is that, I know, is stuffing as much money as they can into retirement accounts, not thinking about is there a maximum that I should step in? Should I put money into after-tax accounts? And all of this really impacts people who are getting divorced in that gray divorce arena and are making choices about which assets to take and just improving their financial literacy. So thank you and welcome Nick.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, jackie. I appreciate the wonderful introduction and really happy and excited to chat with you about all this fun stuff today that I have the pleasure of helping clients with, because, like most folks, it's enough to make their head spin and makes my head spin sometimes, but it's part of what I love doing, what I do. So thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm going to share with our listeners that I listened to a really in-depth brainiac kind of presentation that you put together.
Speaker 2:That's on YouTube on this topic and I'm going to link. That was a lot.
Speaker 1:It was a lot, it was great, and I'm going to link that in the show notes because I think that that information is so important for anybody that has these in-depth kinds of questions. That has these in-depth kinds of questions, so let's dive right in. Can you talk a little bit about Roth IRAs and regular IRAs and I know that I often tell my clients you probably want to consider converting to a Roth IRA, but I can see their eyes glaze over and if you could talk a little bit about the differences between those and why that might benefit somebody who is recently divorced.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. So, yeah, let's start with the foundations, because if we don't totally grasp those two areas, it's going to be tough to make quality decisions beyond that. So the traditional IRA you know, 99% of the time, about 100% of the money in those sort of vehicles are going to be considered pre-tax. Ok, so usually people end up with a traditional IRA, maybe because they were putting money into a traditional or pre-tax 401k over time, right? So perhaps they were maxing out or their spouse was maxing out the 401k plan for many years. They were putting 20, 30 grand a year away into that 401k and it's a great savings tool because of the money that you put in, you ultimately receive a tax deduction on those dollars.
Speaker 2:Okay, so if you made $200,000 in a year and you put 20 grand into your pre-tax 401k, only 180,000 ends up showing up on your tax return. But at some point you do have to pay the tax, which I'm sure we'll get into later. But at the end of the day, the money traditionally, as the name would imply in that traditional IRA is pre-tax, so none of that money has been exposed to taxes. So at some point you got to pay the piper and pay Uncle.
Speaker 2:Sam with that Roth IRA is pretty much the exact opposite. So money that you put into a Roth IRA and because, yeah, Roth IRAs are around but that Roth feature wasn't necessarily available in the actual 401k plan. That's changed quite a bit as these vehicles have become more popular. So when you put money into a Roth 401k or a Roth IRA, for that matter, you don't receive that upfront tax deduction, but the trade-off is from the moment that money lands in the Roth IRA or the Roth 401k you're going to see tax deferred and tax-free growth, assuming that you keep the money in until you're 59 and a half, and there's other rules that are going to apply with it. But generally speaking, if you follow all the rules, you check all the boxes, you're not going to pay any tax when you go to pull the money out of the Roth IRA or Roth 401k, and that's going to include earnings. So two very important distinctions between those two accounts.
Speaker 1:Huge benefit and I have to tell you that I see so many clients in divorce that I look at their statements and part of their spouse's retirement account or their own is in a Roth 401k and part is in a regular and they have no idea why. Even if you ask the person that is the employee how did you? Make the decision about what you're putting in the regular and what you're putting in the Roth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I see it all the time and I've generally speaking, it makes more sense to put your dollars into the pre-tax or the quote unquote traditional 401k when you're in a higher tax bracket. And I can't tell you how many times I've met with folks who you know they've just Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks are wonderful, we love them, but it's not a one-size-fits-all. There's never a one-size-fits-all in financial planning or the work that you do for your clients. Jackie, generally speaking, it makes more sense to do these pre-tax contributions when you're in this higher tax bracket because then when you go to take the money out in retirement, in theory you're going to be in a lower bracket. But sometimes people just hear about the Roth IRAs being so wonderful and they just anchor on this tax-free growth aspect. But it really the bottom line is this it ultimately comes down to what tax bracket you are in now versus what tax bracket you expect to be in down the line, and we only have so much clarity around that.
Speaker 2:You know, life changes with income. Sometimes we think we're going to be in a higher bracket or not. Maybe someone was married and of course now they're divorced and now they have single tax rates. So those brackets and those income parameters have become dramatically compressed. Rates. So those brackets and those income parameters have become dramatically compressed. So I meet with folks all the time where we say you know what? I understand why you might want to put money in this bucket, like you just said. You see a lot of folks with the Roth 401k. But oftentimes it makes sense to do the exact opposite or even try to come up with some sort of balancing act. I do that for clients all the time because we don't know exactly what the income tax rates are going to be or what the client's income situation is going to be on the line.
Speaker 1:So, just like we'd like to diversify a client's investments, in most cases diversifying the tax treatment of those accounts can be powerful too, that's a powerful concept actually and, again, hardly ever brought up, and I think that whole idea of having a strategy, or at least knowing that there is a strategy in terms of how you choose to save, where you choose to save your money in retirement is such an important thing. Is the spouse stay-at-home parent, let's say, and she's got all of this retirement account money that she's going to be getting and generally speaking, we would split it up kind of proportionally. So she also is going to get spousal support and child support, which are not taxable income, but they combined are enough money to cover all her living expenses. So she's not going to have any other earned income. So if she gets a lot of regular traditional IRA money or 401k money, that qualified money, is that a good opportunity for someone like my client to convert to a Roth IRA and what things should they consider?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent. That's when a geek like me starts to get really excited about the opportunities with it, because there's huge opportunity to be able to do exactly what you said, to do something like a Roth IRA conversion. So maybe, if you don't mind, jackie, I'll just spend a few minutes kind of talking about what a conversion means.
Speaker 2:Yes, please what a Roth IRA is and I have these you can contribute, you can convert. Like I said earlier, it's enough to make anyone's head spin at times. So when I was mentioning earlier contributing to a Roth IRA or a 401k, that's new money going in each and every year and for 2025, the most you can put in to a Roth IRA is seven grand if you're under 58, if you're over 50, and then significantly more if you're putting money into that 401k bucket. That's new money being deposited, all right. So that's a contribution, right? Pretty straightforward.
Speaker 2:A conversion is different, but of course, it still involves that Roth account. So when we're converting money to a Roth IRA, we're literally picking money up in a traditional IRA or 401k and dropping it into the Roth IRA. So think of it more of as a repositioning of assets on your balance sheet. It's not new money going in, it's just a repositioning of assets. Okay, right, when you do that? Because, if the listeners remember earlier when I mentioned you know, any money for the most part, all money in a traditional IRA has never been taxed. So if you move it over to a Roth IRA, you are going to generate a taxable event when that occurs.
Speaker 2:Which nobody ever wants to do right, Exactly no one ever wants to pay tax before they actually need that money or when they technically don't need it. Who wants to say, hey, let's generate a $10,000 tax bill but there's really no need, there's no immediate need for that income? I mean, that's human nature. No one wants to go down that route. But the way that I myself and our team that we approach taxes isn't about how can we get your tax liability as close to zero as possible in one year. It's how do we reduce your overall tax liability over your entire lifetime, not just for the one year, and sometimes even not just even your lifetime, but the next generation's lifetime. So, taking the it's just, it's a much more robust and broad look at things in our opinion, and so that's how the conversion works.
Speaker 2:But to go back to your original question, you know, could that be a good opportunity in that situation where you know someone is receiving alimony, child support's a great situation. They don't really need to lean on their other assets to generate cashflow. So in that situation, that individual essentially has negative taxable income because they don't have any tax. They don't have any income hitting the tax return Right, and then they're also going to get a standard deduction. If they're single. It's going to be around 15,000, depending on the credit for a lot of child tax credits to your point, exactly.
Speaker 2:So none of those deductions or credits do anything for you unless you have income to offset those items, and so it's a wonderful, glorious opportunity to say, hey, let's, um, let's convert 30, 40, $50,000, whatever it is from the traditional IRA to the Roth while you're in this very low tax bracket.
Speaker 2:And I've done this for clients that we've partnered with in the past, where you know we convert 50 grand and the client is only paying an average tax rate of like seven to 10% and taking advantage of like you mentioned earlier, jackie, like no one loves to pay tax when they don't need to. But in our mind, we want to realize and accelerate taxes when we're in a low bracket now compared to what we could potentially be at in the future. Right now, we have historically low tax rates, and these tax rates are actually set to expire at the end of 2025. Given the composition of the Senate and the House, it's very possible and likely the tax rates that we have now are made permanent or they're along for a little bit longer, but you know, who knows? I mean there's still a lot of unknowns in that regard.
Speaker 1:But paying tax now, when we have certainty around the low rates is something we've been doing a lot of for clients and it can really add value over time doing a lot of for clients and they can really add value over time and there has to be, like you mentioned a minute ago that you would do you did 50,000. For someone that has significant retirement assets, you can help them come up with a strategy. I'm assuming for year one we're going to convert this, you're assuming the tax rates stay the same. You know, and obviously you're going to look at it with them year to year 100%, yeah, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:So what I love to do with folks is almost create like a timeline, and I'm a visual learner. That's just how things click with me, so I like to write it out.
Speaker 1:Me too yeah.
Speaker 2:Like a year by year game plan of what exactly are we going to do. And of course it's fluid. I mean things can change and tax laws can adjust and you know whatever the situation is. But oftentimes when I work with clients, I find that they have these quote unquote gap years that we can, and I'm not talking about going to find yourself after high school like your gap year in retirement, where you, before you have you know income hitting the tax return.
Speaker 2:That's what I like to call immovable income, okay. So like once social security starts or once a pension starts or once your RMD start, which we might get into later if we have time. Like that income smack in the tax return, there's nothing you can do about it. Like that income smack in the tax return, there's nothing you can do about it. No-transcript. And they have different mutual funds or stocks that are highly appreciated and that client perhaps finds themselves in the 12% tax bracket. If we strategically sell certain securities investments within those after-tax brokerage accounts, they would actually not pay any federal capital gains tax on those gains if we keep them in the 12% bracket. So I know we've talked a lot about Roth IRA conversions, which are great, certainly but there's also some really cool strategies that we look at as well for clients when they have a lot of assets or maybe a high concentration in a certain investment in one of these after-tax brokerage accounts.
Speaker 1:So just a couple of cool things that we take a look at. So it sounds, and just as a reminder to our listeners whatever your marital status is on December 31st of the year is how you will file your taxes. So, even if you have been married, you got divorced on December 29th. As long as you're divorced by December 31st, you're going to file single or head of household for that tax year. So we're taping this in February of 2025. What is the deadline to do some of these things for clients in terms of converting, in terms of selling? If they wanted to sell any highly appreciated assets, what would apply to 2024 taxes and what would apply to them alone in 2025?
Speaker 2:Great question. So, any time you're, I'll touch on two different important dates. The first is your tax filing date. Okay, that's typically in this year for tax year 2024, it's April 15th of 2025. You actually haven't sold that date to make IRA and Roth IRA contributions for the previous tax year. Okay, Talking about new money going in, right, but as it relates to Roth IRA conversions so once again, shifting money, that repositioning of shifting money from the existing traditional IRA to the Roth or selling investments within the brokerage account, those technically have to be done by December 31st, by the end of the year. Okay.
Speaker 2:The one thing with the Roth IRA conversion that you have to be a little careful with is, once you do one, it's done. You can't undo it About. I'd say, close to 10 years ago you used to be able to undo a Roth IRA conversion If you said, oh my gosh, I ended up converting too much. My income actually won the lottery, you know, at the end of the year, my income it's a good problem to have my income was significantly higher. I should never have done this thing. I want to unravel it Cannot do that anymore. So for a lot of clients, we like to do them in the third or fourth quarter of the year, because by then we have a very good understanding and picture of what their income is going to be for the entire year.
Speaker 1:Sure, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause we don't want to wait. I mean, in my opinion we don't want to wait till like mid to late December typically to do them, because that's when we're scrambling, that's when mistakes can occur. You know what I'm saying. So I do like to get them done. Typically, you know, textbooks would say you have until the end of the year. My preference is to get them done definitely before mid-December. That way we're not rushing and making mistakes.
Speaker 1:So for people who are divorced, they really want to start let's say that their divorce is final in March. They really want to start thinking about that sooner than December of that year. To make sure that they have enough time to consider it. Talk to their financial advisor. Probably CPAs are really busy at that time of year.
Speaker 2:Exactly, Yep, Yep, Sooner the better. And even if and sometimes I'll have that conversations with folks who are, you know, maybe going through that divorce and you know it happened, like you said, happens earlier on in the year and we might not necessarily actually do something like the Roth conversion or be strategic with selling certain securities in the brokerage account, but we can at least put that on the list and say, hey, these are things that we think could potentially make sense for you and let's really keep a close eye on it. And that way you know, that way we know what we're, what we're getting to later on in the year. So we might not tackle it right then and there, but we'll at least start to develop a game plan and checklist almost on when we want to tackle these things for folks.
Speaker 1:Okay, awesome. One thing I want to make sure that we touch on and I thought this was explained really well in your video, your webinar that I watched. I learned so many things from that actually, oh thank you.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that really struck me was about how to take a paycheck in retirement and where to pull from which accounts to pull from. So many of my clients falling into that gray divorce arena, which is technically age 50 and up getting divorced. But I have clients who are in their 70s that are getting divorced. So this idea of where do I take the money from? I know that obviously every situation is completely different, but can you share some of the thought process that goes into helping a client put together that kind of a strategy?
Speaker 2:Sure, 100%. So I mentioned a few minutes ago those gap years because that comes in so often. Regardless of age, I would say, and I kind of think of that question, and it does depend on kind of your age and where you are at in life and in your retirement cycle, if you will. So let's say someone is in their early 60s and they got four or five years until they go on to Medicare. Where are they going to get health insurance? Do they have to go through healthcaregov, get an individual policy? That's something that we help clients take a look at, not our area of expertise as it relates to the insurance aspect, but producing their paycheck in a way that keeps their income relatively low, because that could actually qualify them for some meaningful subsidies and dramatically reduce the amount that they're paying for health insurance.
Speaker 2:And I actually wrote a pretty good paper on that, so I'll shoot it your way and you can take a look. But for listening, that's on our website as well. But it really goes into the weeds on the mechanics with that and I know we just spent a lot of time talking about like accelerating income, but this is kind of the exact opposite. So maybe there's like a couple of years where perhaps someone through the divorce is receiving sizable after-tax brokerage accounts or brokerage account right, and if they're taking money out, you know they might take $50,000 out for living expenses, but because a lot of that money has already been taxed, yes, there might be some capital gains, but maybe you take out $50,000 and only $10,000 actually hits your tax return when that happens so for years where you're looking for your own and that applies to a lot of clients that I work with so they're looking to get back in the workforce and they don't have their own health insurance.
Speaker 1:Cobra is always a really expensive option, but I never think about this, Nick, that we should try to minimize their income to be able to get subsidies.
Speaker 2:And oftentimes it is a balancing act where we say, oh my gosh, and I struggle with admittedly, I struggle with this. As an advisor, I want to do Roth IRA conversions for someone but if we don't structure income in a certain way to actually reduce income, kind of do the exact opposite, If we go this route we're saving the client five, six, seven grand a year in healthcare expenses, and that's significant it is.
Speaker 2:I always joke with clients. I wish this value add that we that would flow down to your investment performance to show you, like, how much money you have in your pocket. It doesn't work that way, but just you know to any of your listeners, I you know, when you're going through this process of determining who you want to work with, um, you know, strongly consider working with someone who understands taxes, because it truly can add a lot of value, whether it's with health care or others that we've talked about. So far.
Speaker 1:I think again it's going back to that idea of working with someone who does holistic financial planning, where they're looking at they're really not just saying that, but they're doing it. I mean, you might call yourself like a geek or a nerd, but it's very unique.
Speaker 1:It's very unique so am I, but it's very unique to get to go do that kind of a deep dive and it adds huge value to clients and I think that for people that are getting divorced, that are really worried about their cash flow, I think that it's very visible if they're going to save a lot of money. People are so worried about health insurance costs. The clients that I talk to. That's their number one expense.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say, hands down, it is the thing that I see, prevent people who can actually retire. But they anchor in their mind and they think that health insurance is going to be such a huge hurdle. And I get it because that's what you hear on the news and it is in reality if you don't structure your paycheck in a certain way. But sometimes when we sit down I say, hey, good news, If we can be really smart with how we structure your paycheck and which accounts we pull from to get you the cash that you need. And your insurance premiums are not going to be 20 grand a year, they're going to be five or six, you know, or whatever that number is.
Speaker 2:But, um, but once someone is on Medicare, you know they turned 65, they're on Medicare.
Speaker 2:Maybe they haven't turned on their social security quite yet, you know, maybe they're waiting until 70. So you know, now they're on Medicare, we don't have to worry about the individual healthcare stuff, because now they're, you know they're 65, right. So now, at that point I like to shift the focus a little bit and start focusing more or at least exploring, like we talked about earlier, kind of beating these to death with those Roth conversions because what that can do is take advantage of being in these low tax bracket years before something like the Social Security or your required minimum distributions kick in at some point out of your traditional IRA. So if you do these conversions over time, even if you're doing 20, 30 grand a year, but if you do that over the course of eight to 10 years, that's a significant amount of money that you're repositioning out of your traditional IRA into a Roth which is going to help reduce your IRA assets, which then in turn, reduce your future RMDs and potential Medicare premiums. It really is a snowball effect.
Speaker 1:It's amazing, it's very exciting to someone like me listening to these ideas.
Speaker 2:I'm glad I'm not the only geek on the call.
Speaker 1:No, it's very exciting. But also I'm going to steal this from you. I love the way you put this in that webinar where you said that there is basically a lien against your retirement accounts when you take the money out in retirement, and I never think about it that way, but the idea of converting and not having that tax bill earlier on, if done the right way. I want to caution our listeners don't run out and just convert all of your IRA money into Roth IRAs. I mean, you have to have a really thought out strategy.
Speaker 2:You do and I'm just thinking through some of the cases that you and I have talked. You know we've had certainly share a few mutual clients and it's not uncommon for one spouse to be very high earner and the other spouse maybe was a stay-at-home parent Right, Supporting spouse in their high achieving career right, and oftentimes I'm sure you experience this. Looking at the marital assets, which ones do we split up? If I'm the high earner in that relationship, I want all of that Roth money and I'm fighting for it.
Speaker 2:So it actually kind of it might be a quality negotiation tactic, because not a lot of people are aware of these rules. With the Roth IRA conversions and to the lower you know, to the spouse maybe who is a stay-at-home parent they can ultimately receive more of the traditional or pre-tax IRA assets and then throughout, you know, maybe the course of time, do these gradual Roth IRA conversions and not really pay all that much on it. But if I'm the high earner I'm looking to keep a hundred percent of that Roth money and divvy up the pre-tax assets even more.
Speaker 1:So that was just a thought. Yeah, no, I mean, I think what you're talking about is a win-win when people are negotiating their cases together, but I don't think again. I deal with mainly high net worth clients, but I deal with clients in all different income ranges, but when I'm working with the very high wage earning client, I never hear that from somebody. I never hear from someone I need to keep all of the Roth. I don't think that they know why a lot of why they have the Roth IRA dollars. So that doesn't come up. But I'd love to bring that up going forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's. It's something to think about because it's all and we've actually I've done this for clients, even you know, who have children and maybe maybe they're they have. You know, married couple, two kids. One child is in the doing very, very well, extremely successful. They're in the 35 or you know, 35 or 37% tax bracket. And then you have the other child, maybe working for a nonprofit doing great work, but they're just their income isn't. Maybe working for a nonprofit doing great work, but they're just their income isn't anywhere near what the other higher earner sibling is at. So maybe they're in the 10 or the 12 percent bracket.
Speaker 2:So we've taken a look at the couple's assets and said, look, at the end of the day we want the money to go 50-50 to the kids, but let's be highly intentional on which assets actually go to each kid, depending on their tax situation. So it's kind of similar. I would say it's taken it to the next level. But you know those are important conversations to have. When you have, when there's a significant amount of wealth at stake and there are different types of accounts, if you have everything in traditional IRA, there's not as much planning. You know that goes into it. There's still certainly some, but where these items really are, you know concepts really come off, are really with folks who have several different types of investment accounts that have different tax treatment.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Well, I've thought of probably 20 more questions that I would want to ask you, Nick, but I'm going to have to have you come back, I think. This will be episode one, right yeah this will be part one, but I was just thinking. I have so many clients right now, in fact, that have RSUs and PSUs, and talking about dividing those in the most tax advantageous way would be another great topic, and we're going to touch on reverse mortgages, so I have to have you come back another time.
Speaker 1:But, I also know that I'm going to be reaching out to you with any of these tax questions that I have.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm here for Happy to help.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your time today. I'm going to link all of your contact info in the show notes here. Is there anything else that you really want to cover that we didn't touch on?
Speaker 2:No, I honestly. I think we covered it today as much as we could, and it's amazing how quickly the time goes by when you get to talking about stuff that you're passionate about.
Speaker 2:But no, I guess in my conclusion or parting statement would just kind of go back to what I mentioned earlier. I mean, to your point, there's just there's so many aspects to your financial life that extend beyond the investment. So when you're going to look with, if you're looking at partnering with a financial advisor, in my opinion you really want to take a close look at working with someone who's a certified financial planner. The CFP board, I think, does a wonderful job of laying out lists of questions that clients should be asking advisors, you know, are you a fiduciary? Are you going to be doing more than investing my money? You know all these sort of things. So certainly I'd love to be a resource for any folks you know who joined the call. But even if we're not, like when you're going through that process, try to partner with someone who is looking at more than just the investments Because, as we talked about today, there's certainly a lot more to it than just buy this or sell that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I put together a little interview questionnaire for my clients when they interview financial planners post-divorce, so I'm also going to include that in there. So thank you for the reminder for that and thanks again, nick. This was so much fun, thank you.
Speaker 2:Jackie, I appreciate it Always great seeing you and thank you for having me on. It was a good time.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen to Divorce Rich Podcast. If you like this podcast, please follow us on Apple or anywhere that you download podcasts and share this link with any friends or family that you think might benefit from this information.
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